Rainbow Crew is an ongoing interview series that celebrates the best LGBTQ+ representation on-screen. Each instalment showcases talent working on both sides of the camera, including queer creatives and allies to the community.
Next up, we're speaking to We're Here hosts Sasha Velour and Latrice Royale.
"We're Here is for everyone," Latrice Royale tells us, and that's perhaps never been more true than it is in season four.
Yes, the show has always been inclusive of every letter in the alphabet, not to mention the numerous straight allies who have made a stand in previous seasons as well. But this time around, the new cast are even "teaching humanity" in church of all places during a particularly emotional finale for Latrice, Sasha, and everyone who bears witness to their queerness being celebrated in a religious setting.
To celebrate, Digital Spy spoke to new hosts Sasha Velour and Latrice Royale in separate chats spliced together here to break down the love, adversity, and yes, joy behind the making of We're Here's season-four finale.
Instead of visiting different cities each episode, you spend half a season in just one place, which gives you and the other queens more time to make systemic change (beyond the impact you're already having on each of your individual drag kids). How did you feel about this format twist?
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Sasha Velour: It's been interesting hearing behind the scenes of the first three seasons of the show, hearing from my friend Diego, who has been working on costumes the entire time. And for Bob and Eureka, how the ripple effect of them filming these episodes often continued long after they had left.
One of the ideas was like, let's stay a little bit longer so we're being responsible in that we're coming in, shaking up these people's lives, and then being there to help when all the shit hits the fan, so to speak. But also exploring the full story of what it's actually like to be queer in these places.
Some things don't move overnight, and to see how they slowly evolve and shift over the course of a month was really, really interesting. We got to contact the police department and talk to politicians and go to a city council meeting. That was really interesting for me, things I should probably be doing in my everyday life in my community. But we're not up against quite the same opposition in Brooklyn.
Latrice, how did you get involved with We're Here? Your announcement came a little later than the other new queens, so we'd love to hear more on how this all came together?
Latrice Royale: They were planning to do a new format and it was going to involve more queens. Filming this kind of documentary is a learning process, you learn as you go, so I got a call that they really wanted to get my perspective and my voice in there because they loved me and what I stand for. The more stories that get told, the better off we all are, so voilà.
It's such a refreshing change. You get a deep dive into the heart of what's really the issues there, where the fear is coming from and why that fear turns into hate. People are just uncomfortable with things that they don't understand.
With so much misinformation about our community, about drag, about trans, all of it going around, especially it being a political year, people are using that for their own agenda. We become pawns and collateral damage, and that's not ok. So let's take these opportunities to really get to the heart of it and try to dispel some of that, to find out why and where it's coming from.
It's really admirable how you all met these dissenting voices in the middle and engaged with them throughout the season.
Latrice Royale: It's important that we don't meet them where they are, as far as the hate goes. We don't ever want to go to that level because what we are is about love and inclusion and diversity. That's the whole message of what we're doing, trying to teach the people.
I'm from Compton. I grew up around homophobic people my entire life, so I have firsthand knowledge on how to deal with it, how to navigate around and try to make them disarmed, if you will. If you can be disarmed a bit, maybe you'll see a different perspective.
Your composure was very impressive. It would have been so easy to get angry because you're confronted by pure hate at some points in the show.
Latrice Royale: You can't be popping off at these people. We're gonna do the complete opposite of that. And that is work. Yes, that is part of the work.
Sasha Velour: When someone is saying a lie about me or people I care about, I can't keep my mouth shut. I'm going to stand up against misinformation and say the truth.
But I did genuinely want to have a conversation, because we were talking to people who have put a lot of emphasis in their lives and in their politics on closing down options for queer and trans people. We're some of the first queer and trans people they've actually had a chance to talk to.
I'm not just going to be full of rhetoric and come at them angry, and refuse to engage. I want this to maybe be an opportunity where they can actually hear from us as human beings. I'm not sure they wanted that. But we try.
So much of that hatred and fear comes from not even knowing queer people. We really felt for you all when you were having these difficult conversations, for example when you met Charity to discuss her Republican politics.
Sasha Velour: It was hard. I really tried to appeal to her reason, Latrice really tried to appeal to her heart. And we weren't getting through to her through either way. These people with these strong opinions about drag have never seen it and don't ever want to see it. So where are these ideas and these strong opinions even coming from? Why do they even care if they have no interest in learning anything?
The confidence in ignorance, I guess, seemed way more common than I would have thought. I would have thought people with that much passion would inform themselves. We've had to learn everything about drag through research and going out, because, this information really has been hidden. So I guess I understand why they don't know much about it, but it's not impossible to find out more.
That's where visibility is so key. Throughout the series, you all made a conscious choice to enter typically non-queer spaces in drag, like the church and at the council meeting and also when you applied for that government permit as well.
Sasha Velour: To be honest, sometimes I think we are more frightening out of drag with our nails, our appearance, and my out-of-drag fashion. I'm really no less queer. Sometimes I'm actually more queer, out of drag, because it's not a character. I'm a real person. But I think there was something very intimidating about us in drag too.
For us, drag is often a form of armour that gives us permission to take up space, to be loud and bold and fearless in a world that wants to silence us. When we're out in our regalia, we will not sit back and be silent. So I think it was an internal push to be bold in these moments where we were called to act like superheroes. Okay, I guess we're gonna dress like superheroes to help us get there.
Latrice Royale: It's a drag issue, so if you are trying to fight for your cause, you have to show up in uniform. If you're going to a corporate meeting, you've got to dress the part of CEO. And here I am. I'm the CEO of my drag, so I am going to show up ready.
It doesn't do any good for me to be sitting here looking like a man. It doesn't have the same effect showing up as a gay man out of drag.
We imagine a lot of these people have never really encountered queer people.
Latrice Royale: Neverrr! That's the thing that drives me nuts. A lot of these people have never been to a drag show, never met a drag queen, don't know what goes on at a drag show. But they have all these opinions and ideas about what it is. It's always sexual and has to do with genitalia.
I don't do anything suggestive in my show. It's not the kind of drag I do. Just like Gladys Knight doesn't do anything suggestive in her show. But Nicki Minaj and Cardi B? That's a different story. So there's all different kinds of drag just as there are all different kinds of entertainment.
Sasha, one aspect of this season that really stuck with me in particular is the bond you formed with Jess, helping her come out of her shell and find herself as a trans woman.
Sasha Velour: I love Jess so much. She had a really clear mission coming on the show. She just wanted to be pushed completely out of her comfort zone and to just see herself looking completely different.
I kept being like, "I want to manage expectations. We're not a fairy godmother. We're gonna do one makeover and it's not going to change everything about how you view yourself."
But then another part of me knows that seeing myself in drag changed my life. Feeling like I could look different than the person that I hated, that I had possibilities in me that I didn't realise. That gave me hope, that gave me something to live for, something to strive for. So then I was like, "Screw it. Let the drag change your life my darling!"
But I was also committed to setting these little goals with her to help her to a place where she could be more comfortable on a day-to-day basis. We had little homework assignments, like, get your nails done, get your eyebrows waxed, get your ears pierced. Just little things that she had always wanted to do.
Jess just needed someone to say, "Do this for yourself. Don't make reasons to not." Life is too short to have a wish list of things you want, that are doable, that you just talk yourself out of because you're afraid.
She needed it so much so it didn't take much pushing to get her to tap into her full Jess power. It is really exciting to get to be there for that part of her journey. That's a really vulnerable part of every trans person's story, and not a part that is often shown on television, because it's such an insecure time. I thought she was really heroic for putting that out there for everyone. And for herself.
There's so much joy in We're Here, and that's especially true at the end when you all perform in that church together. What did it mean for you to bring queerness into that space in such a happy, joyful capacity?
Latrice Royale: Coming from a situation where you're being told that you're an abomination, that you're gonna go to hell, that's your lot in life, that you're going to die and go to hell... It was so affirming to hear someone of faith tell you that you are loved. That you are a child of God and that you are wanted and welcome in this church. I was so moved.
I got very emotional during that time, because I never thought I'd hear those words. And the fact we were in church, that's a whole other level of like, "Oh, my goodness."
It was challenging me, whether I was making a mockery of god. I had to deal with all that for myself in the moment, in real time. I had to talk myself into walking into that church in drag.
Sasha Velour: I was really shocked to hear words of queer and trans acceptance in a church. The idea that religion should encourage people to go out to the most needy and uplift them and see their humanity and love them and be generous towards them. And in a church that views us in our community as part of their world.
Of course, it makes sense to have a drag show there. It shouldn't be such a disconnect to see drag in front of a stained glass window of Jesus. But for me, and for lots of us, it will feel surreal to see these two things coexisting. Our message is that's only surreal because this message of love has gotten confused with all these words of hatred and all these ideas of shame. So I think it was really, really powerful.
I wrote this book about the history of drag. When I was doing my research, I was struck by how much the church actually borrowed from these really ancient drag displays that were once considered part of spiritual beliefs.
We tap into that a little bit with John's story about how Two Spirit and trans people were a source of wisdom and spiritual healing for a lot of Indigenous societies. But this was all over the world, not just in the Americas.
When the church came in, they co-opted some of these performance strategies that included costume reveals, making a gender change, and incorporated them into the structure of Christianity, because they worked on people. They already caused an emotional effect. They were already popular. They were exciting to watch. That's why priests wear dresses on stage, and that's why they do reveals.
It feels right for us to be in a church when you look at it that way.
Sasha, we were especially moved by your performance of Kesha's 'Praying' in the church at the end. There's so many beautiful layers to it. Can you talk us through the conception of those final moments in the season?
Sasha Velour: I really love that song by Kesha. It's about triumph after abuse and I wanted the interpretation that fit this story, which is the story of the season this time in the world, which is to stand up to voices who tell you you are worthless and that you should hide, that kind of abuse our community is experiencing.
The idea for the dress reveal came from stripping away this veneer of shame, this red colour representing sin or deviance or whatever word they want to label us with. Having that lift away and be mirrored by this pure glowing surface that is the truth of drag, this surface of possibility and becoming, and then doing projections of this whole community outpouring of love that we experienced that drowned out all the voices of hate. That's the truth of drag that lies underneath all the misconceptions.
It was a lot of different ideas. These months we spent living right alongside all these drag kids, trying to weave that into a conclusion and get people some sense of positivity at the end of it and give ourselves a sense of hope through a drag performance.
It felt like an impossible task. But this is what I do with all my drag numbers, turn all the shit that is out there in the world into some positive gesture that we can cling to in those moments when we're feeling down and remind ourselves, okay, there was one gesture that gave us hope. That's what it was for me. And I hope it can do that for people watching.
We're Here returns on Max in the US on April 26, and streams on Sky Go and NOW in the UK.
After teaching in England and South Korea, David turned to writing in Germany, where he covered everything from superhero movies to the Berlin Film Festival.
In 2019, David moved to London to join Digital Spy, where he could indulge his love of comics, horror and LGBTQ+ storytelling as Deputy TV Editor, and later, as Acting TV Editor.
David has spoken on numerous LGBTQ+ panels to discuss queer representation and in 2020, he created the Rainbow Crew interview series, which celebrates LGBTQ+ talent on both sides of the camera via video content and longform reads.
Beyond that, David has interviewed all your faves, including Henry Cavill, Pedro Pascal, Olivia Colman, Patrick Stewart, Ncuti Gatwa, Jamie Dornan, Regina King, and more — not to mention countless Drag Race legends.
As a freelance entertainment journalist, David has bylines across a range of publications including Empire Online, Radio Times, INTO, Highsnobiety, Den of Geek, The Digital Fix and Sight & Sound.
